‘Making a movie that ends up swallowing itself’: Bo is afraid with Joaquin Phoenix, seen by its director Ari Aster

With two films, Legacy and Midsummer, Ari Astaire has become one of America’s most sought-after filmmakers and a new favorite among horror fans. Very good at creating a haunting atmosphere and creating a sense of unease, he now directs three passes with Beau is Afraid, a man’s crazy odyssey (Joaquin Phoenix) in an increasingly crazy world.

There are many points of commonality with his previous films, stylistically and thematically, but the filmmaker nevertheless periodically changes the register of what he describes, to our microphone, as a comedy. The humor, while gruesome, is more than that. And more brutally breaks the tone. A meeting with a very reserved director, around one of the most twisted and unpredictable films of this beginning of the year.

AlloCiné: How do your films in general and “Beau is Afraid” in particular come about?

It’s Aster : It depends. Sometimes it’s an image, sometimes it’s a tone. In the case of Beau is Afraid, it all started with something that makes me laugh. Rather, with the world, whatever it is, then with this sense of humor, thanks to which it was filled.

You talk about humor and we have a feeling that you wanted to try different tones, different forms of humor or aesthetics with this film. Is that how you wrote the movie, segment by segment, before tying it all together?

Are there four different parts or five? or even six? While making this film, I really felt the path I was following more than in my other feature films. It was very intuitive, and it’s only now that the film is released that I try to find ways to express what was incredible when it was made. But the goal was always to do something picaresque . contribute to this tradition.

I wanted to do something that was broad and constantly changing. I hope everything is consistent, but the changes in tone, rhythm, and structure, while thoughtful, are somehow counterintuitive. This is a film that delves deeper and deeper into the character, his experiences and fantasies.

It reaches its emotional peak when it is at its most fake when Bo enters the play. . It is in this sequence that we know him best, but nothing that surrounds him is real. It is a fantasy of power and freedom, which is not reality for him. From there we can say that the film goes up or down in power as you like.

This is a film that becomes more and more immersed in the character, his experiences and fantasies.

The rhythm is really different from that of “Midsomar” and “Heritage” where the tension gradually increased. Beau is Afraid is more like a roller coaster ride. How did you build that rhythm in post-production, even within a counter-intuitive structure?

Is it really counter-intuitive? Or, on the contrary, strictly intuitive? In conclusion, I will say that the structure is intuitive, but the film unfolds in a picaresque mode. It should function as an outpatient clinic. It is made differently from my previous films because it is different. But I wanted you to be able to swim and get lost in it.

Beyond the picaresque plot, we also feel that Homer’s Odyssey was a big influence. Because Bo’s Afraid is the story of a man who wants to go home.

Yes, of course. absolutely.

It also shares many similarities with your short film ‘Beau’, which dates back to 2011. which was first Was this short step a necessary step towards a larger story?

No, because I made this short film on a whim, without thinking: I have to leave my apartment in a few days, and I realized that this was a free filming location and that I could make a short film before I left, so I wrote it very quickly.

And then this idea of ​​a man who leaves his keys on the door to get something from the bathroom and finds they’re missing when he comes back struck me as a catalyst for the story. So I stuck with it and the feature evolved from there. I’ve always tried to do comedy, it makes me laugh all the way through and it will work on you depending on whether you find the joke funny or not.

How long have you been working on Beau is Afraid? I read that this may have been your first feature film.

I’ve written a lot of films that didn’t see the light of day before Legacy, so this isn’t really the first thing I’ve tried to direct. Just one of the first ones I tried, and that was before the legacy was over. I wrote an early version of the story ten years ago, but haven’t continued to work on it all that time.

When I couldn’t get it to work the first time, I quit. I decided to come back after Midsummer. I thought maybe it was time to do it. To live in this world and make me laugh.

Do you think your image with the public would be different if “Beau is Afraid” was your first film? We especially know you in horror, while this is a comedy, as you say. Do you think your career would have been different?

It is possible. But I find that there is humor in my first two films. Especially in Midsommar, which to me is a dark comedy. But things would probably be different, yes.

Midsommar is a dark comedy for me

Did you make any big changes to the script for Beau is Afraid when you shot it? So is it basically the same as ten years ago?

I did a few, yes. The Orphans in the Woods segment was very different. Totally different. The ending was also different and there wasn’t really a flashback during the cruise. The scenario developed, deepened. This version goes more to the heart of the character, while the previous one was more focused on the world in which he lives.

A year ago, it was about 4 hours or 3 hours 30 minutes long. Cut important things, like the whole segment? Or just small pieces?

There was never any talk of a 4-hour movie. It was a joke I made during an interview three years ago. When I was asked what my next film would be, I jokingly replied: “It will last 4 hours and will be NC-17”

Of course, I didn’t know then that my next film would be 3 hours long. (laughs) And it could easily have been rated NC-17 in the United States. (laughs) But it was too dead for me.

You talked earlier about whether you think the joke is funny or not, we’re there.

Yes, that was a very mean and sad joke on my part.

How much of yourself is in the character of Bo and in the film itself?

I know Bo quite intensely. and his experience of the world. But Bo is not quite me.

And why was Joaquin Phoenix the perfect performer for this role?

Because it’s Joaquin Phoenix. It is the best. I knew Bo would be a very passive character, very reserved. So I needed someone who would be charming with just his eyes. It was a very interior performance where the energy comes in instead of going out. That’s why his choice seemed so obvious to me.

Your films have this anxious side in common. Do you see them as a catharsis for what you’re feeling?

Of course. There’s a very cathartic side to my work, but I think that’s the case with most artists. Sometimes it seems to me that storytelling is about providing catharsis or withholding it. It’s as simple as that.

Does that mean you feel relieved when you finish a movie?

absolutely. But there’s also something depressing about having him behind you. Like postpartum depression. But I’m still very proud of this film. This is my favorite of the ones I’ve made. Because it seems to me to be the most perfect expression of something.

Today, I see my three films as parts of a trilogy

Why is family so important to you? Or scary, because it’s not always clear.

This might be a lazy answer, but family is the best source of drama because they are the people we relate to the most. Situations immediately become more delicate. With this film I consciously return to some of the themes of my previous themes and see it as the end of the road.

I wasn’t really thinking about a trilogy. But today I see those three films as parts of a trilogy, and this film as an explosion of all those ideas. I wanted to make a film that would absorb itself at the end.

In fact!

Yes! It’s a bit like a movie eating itself. The idea was to consciously return to these concepts, to explode them. There is an element of parody in Beau is Afraid.

Does that mean what you’ll be doing is very different from what we’ve seen before?

I bet I’ll think differently when you tell me it’s the same (laughs)

Interview by Maximilien Pierret in Paris, April 24, 2023