Lenny Abrahamson, EP Conversations with Friends, on the cost of slow TV and the future of adaptations

[This story contains spoilers from Hulu’s Conversations With Friends.]

At any time conversations with friends Debuting on Hulu two weeks ago, it took place on a series of true crime shows and a major reality drama. This Emmy season, in which an adaptation of Sally Rooney’s debut novel hopes to compete, is currently dominated by leaders like squid game, ozarks s abandonment. Lenny Abrahamson and his team at Element Pictures are betting on an audience willing to spend time on a television show: viewers who crave calm, challenging interpersonal stories and where most concerns come from exchanging emails.

But Abrahamson has done just that magic before, with the 2020 adaptation. Normal people (Rooney’s second book, but best seller). This limited series became a critical and commercial success, dominating cultural discourse and earning Emmy and BAFTA nominations. Abrahamson says he refrains from reviewing his work, but is as focused on the overall success of his projects as anyone else, especially since conversationsI like Normal people Before that, I must also respond to Rooney’s dedicated and very attentive fans. . United the hollywood reporter Zoom into his Dublin office to talk about gaming betting this time around, why he changed the show’s ending, and how he hopes Rivers will change television.

When you were filming or preparing for the release, did you understand what the fans were looking for? Can you imagine the audience would be like that because of that? Normal people?

Something in the audience surprised me. Normal people, Which is very broad. I thought we would find fans of the novels and it would be older because filming is very slow. That’s pretty low compared to the world of television. But I was very happy to see that we had a young audience. I think we will find something similar. conversationsAnd my hope is that they find it just as strong.

You think of things along the way that you’ve done conversations with friends It was a direct result of what you learned Normal people? How would the program be different if you did them in reverse order?

what we learned to do Normal people It’s just that viewers are much more willing to sit down with characters and see life closer to the pace of real life than the television industry believes. This is not a criticism, of course. But we did it in a much lower style. with NormalWe said we have this intense love story and we know that if we get it right, we can be slow and careful and bring people into these characters instead of yelling at the screen audience.

And with conversationsWe said that we think we have a difficult history, with all these interrelated relationships and all this uncertainty, and that we can keep a slow instinct. If we had done it in the first place, we might have been scared, or we might have that little voice that says you need to step up and get sexier, shinier, and bigger. Resisting that sound would have been harder for us conversations The first, and that he likes to be in the second adaptation.

Did you have to fight with the studio and the Streamer to make the show so slow?

Far be it from me to praise the study (laughs) But we had a lot of fun with Hulus. We were really looking forward to getting a call saying there’s a long list of notes here. But that didn’t happen, although the studio staff moved from the first show to the second. I remember Normal, Great attention was paid to the first episode. Everyone in the streaming space fears that people will only spend 10 minutes on something, and if they don’t like it, there are 50 other shows they would watch. It’s a tough place to be a storyteller: my way of telling stories is to draw people in slowly, be calm and confident, and take my time. I don’t have a car chase to catch people. But we thought a lot about those first 10 minutes on both shows.

You save the last scene. conversations with friends It unbelievably fits the book, which might make it difficult for some viewers to see that Francis makes the decision to get back together with Nick in seconds. Do you think about softening the ending?

We already talked about this. Everyone has a different feeling at the end of the book and I remember reading it and wondering if he chose one person over another. And does it feel like a denial of that other deep relationship you have with Bob? But I hope the show shows him saving her life rather than choosing one over the other. This is a question the characters ask, can you love more than one person at the same time? Francis feels that he answers: Yes. The novel had a cult ending and we all felt it should be kept but also nuanced. I hope we made it to that ending, which means you have no doubts about her feelings for Bob, even when she brought Nick back.

There seemed to be an element of pause in the fact that the phone call was being made in the show as well as in the book…

We wanted to have the exact last line “Come Bring Me”. There is so much pressure in that direction. In fact, we were really looking forward to filming this scene for Christmas in Dublin. We finished shooting a few months earlier and then went back to that scene. Joseph [Alwyn, as Nick] There was also such a brilliant and raw scene at the end.

What do you think reviving Francis and Nick means for Nick and Melissa’s wedding?

What you imagine is going to happen next is that Melissa is really going to think wow, I don’t think so. But he is strong. And even in the last conversation she has with Francis when they have this confrontation over the phone, she has a feeling Melissa has come to understand the possibility of a more poly relationship. She was open to it. And even though he’s mad at Francis, he still cares about her. I think Nick will be honest with him; I don’t think Nick and Francis are keeping this a secret.

Much of that drama plays out in the final episode, with Frances and Bobby getting together and then a possible showdown in the final scene. Was there a discussion about bringing this out?

It was absolutely. I could see a world where maybe the entire episode was devoted to what happens between Francis and Nick splitting up and getting back together. But it can really get people interested in Bobby and Francis to the point where they eventually get hurt by Francis’ decision. What you don’t want to do is show Francis with Bob, but for some reason he still craves Nick. He didn’t want people to think Bobby wasn’t good enough for him. And we didn’t want to interrupt our relationship with Bob. I think Francis loves them both and was ready to let Nick go because of how much he annoyed and annoyed Melissa, but when he talks to her again, he realizes almost spontaneously that I still love this person very much. This is the beginning of another difficult relationship, but this part of our story is not told.

I understand people’s instinct to eventually feel bad on Bob’s behalf, but it seems like Bob doesn’t want a relationship that somehow strays from the normative or even monogamous direction…

This is absolutely correct. For example he talks to Frances and Bob in the kitchen, in the morning when they sleep together they talk about how people think as a couple and you have to work not to do that. I think Bob just wants honesty and Francis needs to be honest with himself too. and sasha [Lane] It’s so cool how you play him because you really believe in him.

The sex scene between Francis and Bob was filmed much more intimately than between Francis and Nick, which was quicker and more distant. What did you try to achieve with this difference?

When Francis and Bobby came back, we wanted to feel at home. There’s a lot of laughter and they talk to each other, although the audience doesn’t understand what they’re saying. Bobby is the closest person to Francis and always will be, so making love should have been different for Nick. Frances and Nick always come or go, there is risk and uncertainty. Whereas Frances and Bobby relate to joy and we wanted that joy to be irreversible.

Nearly five years have passed since the publication of Sally Rooney’s first book, and it’s clear how she has shaped literary trends. Do you think this adaptation will impact the kind of television we watch?

Interestingly, I’ve heard that comparing our programs is very difficult. Deputies and directors post pictures of the program on their boards, and so on. But I hope these shows open the door to the risks streamers and broadcasters will take, and that they realize that the audience is smarter than they deserve. They are more adventurous than they deserve. Small stories can have a big impact.

I also hope that this arms race to make everything bigger and more attractive will slow down. There’s a bit of a flattened effect when you’re trying to make everything brighter. Of course I don’t work in this world, but I see it in science fiction and action movies. Nothing, no effect can shock the public more. I hope that more attention is paid to storytelling in its purest form, and that shows and movies can be smooth and still stand out from the crowd.

Did you learn any lessons about how best to adapt the book successfully?

There is no way, the only thing you can’t solve. You need studios willing to sit down and give talent a chance to figure out the best way to create the best product. With adaptation, you have to keep going until you get it right. But I also want to get rid of the adaptation a little bit. Now there’s a kind of IP madness that I understand and of course I’m guilty of participating. And it’s hard when people give you the opportunity to do such amazing things. But I want to see original, pointless stories that the studio doesn’t need the comfort of an existing book.